Implemented Fix Propkilling

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BARTHOLOMEW

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Server's been out about a year, and here more than SGM prop-killing has become a regular thing, more than that it's rampant here. Any map where someone can propkill, someone will, which is fun if you're 12, retarded, or learning about propkilling for the first time, but for the rest of us it got old before AHG even started up, there's no challenge, no humor, no glory, no fun to instant-killing a random with a barrel, it's something only unfunny or new players do. Not to say there can't be innovation within prop-killing, or times where it doesn't impede the gameplay like a duel, but everyone knows how to do it now, and it's fucking obnoxious, there's times where I've logged on the server, instantly been prop killed by a player/spectator, and stopped playing for weeks. In a game with guns, traitor weapons that cost credits, prop killing is completely game-breaking, and this is coming from the guy whose spent hours trying to break the game in anyway I can.

For example - what's the point of a barrel gun, or a knife, if there's a free 1 shot weapon on 60% of maps with unlimited uses? What's the point of actually playing the game instead of just doing the bare minimum of spawning in, killing people with barrels, no reason for communication or strategy or even thinking. Certain maps you have to avoid entire sections of the map as to not get cross-fired by barrels. When players approach me holding a prop, it's hard to tell if they're RDMing, asking for a duel, or a traitor, so often I won't interact and avoid them, which just makes me end up getting killed (although I guess that's my fault for trying to play 'honorably'). Additionally, if you see someone killed by a prop, you usually assume that person was in a duel or something like that, and not a threat, only to be next in line. That is fucking stupid and even further discourages people from actually playing. It is harder to RDM with a gun than a barrel but I feel like one is looked at as way worse than the other, although you literally just have to move your mouse to get 1+ kills instantly. I miss when people made jokes or had interesting strategies instead of XDDDD I KILLED YOU LOL LAUGH NOW. It's a big reason I stopped playing, as well as a few others I've talked to.

Some potential fixes are (I do not code so idk what's possible)
1) Fix barrels so they actually register as killing a player (vs killed by the world) so propkillers can be reported more often
2) Ban staff from propkilling (If staff does something it becomes accepted and trickles down to the most annoying players) (side note: staff shouldn't even be allowed to RDM each other in general, your stupid inside joke of killing other staff has gotten me and others caught up in many RDM chains over the years. I love when me and 4 others die to your little discord staff call joke! It's to the point where if I see 2 staff fight I have to ignore it and assume it's just that shit)
3) Modifying barrels in a way where they can't instant kill - add a minigame where barrels fall from the sky and the ability to kill is reenacted. Quarantine prop killers to a fun round.

There's other solutions I'm not thinking of, I mean if everyone reported prop RDM things would be a lot better, but that can only go so far. I've talked about this before, for someone to reply "Ummm.... actually the current pop actually seems pretty happy with propkilling!", which is a flawed argument, the people who don't like propkilling have left, so even if I was the only one with this opinion that's only because of survivorship bias. I've burnt out now so thread over but if you have a problem with what i said, this is you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm just a guy who wants the focus back on the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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chewie

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Not sure how this would work but isn’t it possible to remove props on certain maps or affect the physics of them. I know on cs_assault for example SGM was able to disable the ability to magneto the sign to launch yourself, maybe we can increase the weight of props so they can be moved but not used to prop kill, or even disable certain props like barrels/chairs since they are the most common?
 

Nitro_Hunter

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To pass into the Center of the source wall is important to the first tribe of jesus, they are fading out of existence and memory. When Jesus was killed it caused a fracture in the very data of existence. From the tears the new gods awakened. Within the chaos of dominion the new usurper settled behind his Great Wall filled with opium

Let’s make a new server without these scourges and start again from the dawn of man we have persisted
 

Pingu

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literally just stopped playing here because it was annoying. I find it crazy how every other server doesn't have issues with this because they just use common sense and have rules against prop rdm that they don't selectively enforce. You aren't attracting as many new players because they see this shit every round and think it's some lawless land. It's up to y'all if you want to protect this strange tradition but know that it isn't attractive to anyone outside of the clique that does it. If I wanted to play prop kill simulator I wouldn't be playing ttt.
 

Gabriel

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literally just stopped playing here because it was annoying. I find it crazy how every other server doesn't have issues with this because they just use common sense and have rules against prop rdm that they don't selectively enforce. You aren't attracting as many new players because they see this shit every round and think it's some lawless land. It's up to y'all if you want to protect this strange tradition but know that it isn't attractive to anyone outside of the clique that does it. If I wanted to play prop kill simulator I wouldn't be playing ttt.
We don’t selectively enforce it, people don’t report. If people don’t report, people don’t get slain. The only time we step in with unreported kills/damage is when it’s mass RDM or it’s particularly toxic. Note that this isn’t exclusive to propkill, this is the case for guns too
 

Moleman

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We don’t selectively enforce it, people don’t report. If people don’t report, people don’t get slain. The only time we step in with unreported kills/damage is when it’s mass RDM or it’s particularly toxic. Note that this isn’t exclusive to propkill, this is the case for guns too
This makes sense for regulars, but this kind of thinking will definitely (and probably already has quite a bit) drive away new players
 

Gabriel

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This makes sense for regulars, but this kind of thinking will definitely (and probably already has quite a bit) drive away new players
I guess I should’ve included that too, but yeah we often take a look at what is happening to new players. Well, at least I do and I know quite a few other staff that do as well
 

Nitro_Hunter

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Off Topic (see: warning to stay on topic)
We need to let go and begin again. Wipe the slate clean. As the overlord of opalium pierogi has suggested a "serious" server. Destined to replay history within itself a new timeline is the best course of action as the high chancellor pierogi stated in a separate thread
 

slug

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I think every damage dealing weapon in this game should do crowbar-level damage at most (except c4/jihad) and that 1 hit headshots should be removed. All of this shit makes the game feel less like a mafia clone and more like team deathmatch. Maybe have a t weapon that can 2 tap. Make it so that your DPS is an in-game commitment, not an execution barrier. This isn't Quake or Counter Strike it's a fucking detective game God damnit!!!
 

Gabriel

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I think every damage dealing weapon in this game should do crowbar-level damage at most (except c4/jihad) and that 1 hit headshots should be removed. All of this shit makes the game feel less like a mafia clone and more like team deathmatch. Maybe have a t weapon that can 2 tap. Make it so that your DPS is an in-game commitment, not an execution barrier. This isn't Quake or Counter Strike it's a fucking detective game God damnit!!!
This is the first truly different take i've heard. I can't say I agree, one tap headshots are annoying but I don't think they should be completely removed. I think the only one tap weapons should be scoped snipers, and that movement based bloom would help with a lot of current meta, but it is probably asking way too much of a game this old. Probably capable in sandbox tho

EDIT: Someone mentioned this, but I'm more thinking COD/Battlefield levels of bloom, not CS:GO. Not so far as to make it so you have to be still and crouched to land any shots, but just far enough to prevent people from just sprinting out of a corner and one tapping you without skipping a beat
 
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Bonks

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Just far enough to prevent people from just sprinting out of a corner and one tapping you without skipping a beat
This will just make the meta go from jump crouching while shooting become bunnyhopping until the T has to reload and then you stop, stand/wait for the bloom to reset and then 1 tap the T.
 

RyanHighman

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This thread is about prop killing being out of control, not about how to fix server pop or fix the game of TTT. In my opinion, it has. The issue is, there isn't much we can do about it. If you get prop killed and don't like it, report. If you get caught up in an RDM chain and don't like it, report. If you report and the situation still isn't being handled, forum report. Prop killing in its own wont be against the rules unless we can get some hard proof that it does more harm than good.

The bigger issue people seem to have is staff lead RDM chains, but that should be handled in a separate thread/discussion. Feel free to make it.
 

Pierogi

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Not that anyone asked, but
  • I’ve asked @Temar to look into solving the “world kill” issue (e.g. why not all prop kills give kill credit)
  • I’ve asked @optimal to remove the extra barrels that were introduced to several maps. No one’s really mentioned it, but I think it’s definitely contributed to the sentiment that prop killing happens 24/7 now. Many maps that used to not have props, such as innomotel and miami, now have them. These maps are highly popular choices that used to serve as natural breaks from prop killing. With barrels being added to so many maps, it’s very common for us to just not play on maps without props for hours.
  • I’ve been weighing the idea of making harassing a player for not forgiving a valid report result in an extra slay, but haven’t decided if it’s a good idea yet.
 
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Guerrilla Gamer

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Not that anyone asked, but
  • I’ve asked @Temar to look into solving the “world kill” issue (e.g. why all prop kills
  • I’ve asked @optimal to remove the extra barrels that were introduced to several maps. No one’s really mentioned it, but I think it’s definitely contributed to the sentiment that prop killing happens 24/7 now. Many maps that used to not have props, such as innomotel and miami, now have them. These maps are highly popular choices that used to serve as natural breaks from prop killing. With barrels being added to so many maps, it’s very common for us to just not play on maps without props for hours.
  • I’ve been weighing the idea of making harassing a player for not forgiving a valid report result in an extra slay, but haven’t decided if it’s a good idea yet.
I think making that worthy of an extra slay might be a good idea if harassing players for reporting RDM continues like it has. That’s happened to me and I’ve seen it happen to others. Hopefully that won’t be necessary.
 

Nitro_Hunter

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Not that anyone asked, but
  • I’ve asked @Temar to look into solving the “world kill” issue (e.g. why all prop kills
  • I’ve asked @optimal to remove the extra barrels that were introduced to several maps. No one’s really mentioned it, but I think it’s definitely contributed to the sentiment that prop killing happens 24/7 now. Many maps that used to not have props, such as innomotel and miami, now have them. These maps are highly popular choices that used to serve as natural breaks from prop killing. With barrels being added to so many maps, it’s very common for us to just not play on maps without props for hours.
  • I’ve been weighing the idea of making harassing a player for not forgiving a valid report result in an extra slay, but haven’t decided if it’s a good idea yet.
I’m glad I came up with the idea
 

Pierogi

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Barrel kill tracking was improved a while ago, and any extra barrels added to AHG edited maps have been removed. Implemented.
 
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