Rejected Treat Spectator RDM More Harshly

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Prozakk

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It's toxic, so it deserves to be treated as such.

When someone is spec prop killing it is worse than ghosting, they aren't just giving game changing info to an alive player, they are actively killing/damaging alive players. Not only that, but they could be using information they have from when they were alive, or from being dead. Dead innocent targeting traitors, perhaps even revenge targeting. Dead traitor targeting innocents, or worse, killing someone they know for a fact is t.

They are taking someone's fun of playing the game from them because they are bored. Ending someone else's round because they want to.

All of this assumes that the person getting killed wasn't consenting, didn't want to be killed. I don't think this is going to bring back unreported damage.
Spec RDM: 1 slay
RDM(1) (+ Spec RDM?(2))

Inno on T spec RDM: 2 slays
RDM(1) + Potential Intentional RDM of a T(2) (+ Spec RDM?(3))
2 slays because they could have info telling them that the person was T, and may have targeted them.
I think that it would make sense to include someone killing the last inno under this, due to potential targeting.

T on T spec RDM: 3 slays
RDM(1) + Intentional T on T RDM as Spec(3) (+ Spec RDM?(4))
3 slays for the added toxicity that they knew they were T, could be argued to apply to staff spec RDMing Ts.

Revenge Spec RDM: 3 slays
RDM(1) + Revenge RDM as Spec(3) (+ Spec RDM?(4))
Assuming my thread about slain players and possessing props is accepted, this would likely only apply if there is evidence that they killed them as revenge.
I believe this should also apply when an inno/T kills the inno/T that killed them when they were alive, maybe a slightly less severe version though.

Spec RDM while Slain: +1 Slay
If my thread about slain players and possessing props isn't accepted.

Added note: I think all of what I have listed should have +1 slay, for the added toxicity of spec prop killing, intervening on a round you are no longer a part of. I excluded this because it may be looked at as excessive, but I think it's just.
Yes, that would mean 5 slays for someone that revenge RDMed while slain, but that absolutely makes sense to me.

I also believe that bans should be extended for Mass Spec RDM. (Rare, but if someone actually does it, they deserve a longer ban.)
 
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Halen

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MASSIVE -1
it's funny and hasn't been a serious issue ever since you could kick a spectator from a prop with your magneto stick.
TTT is just a game and spectator propkill is rare enough to where it just adds some spice to the gameplay without ruining it
 

Ashes Relandi

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it's funny and hasn't been a serious issue ever since you could kick a spectator from a prop with your magneto stick.
TTT is just a game and spectator propkill is rare enough to where it just adds some spice to the gameplay without ruining it
The problem with this is that not all props can be picked up with your magneto stick, meaning people will just pick props they can easily control and you're hooped because you can't pick it up.
 

AdriX

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Would it be possible to make it so that in order to posses a prop as a spectator you had to be present in the round... this would stop people from just sitting in spectator possessing props all the time and avoiding their slays.
 

Virunas

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The problem with this is that not all props can be picked up with your magneto stick, meaning people will just pick props they can easily control and you're hooped because you can't pick it up.
u can left click and they still get kicked
 

Vent Xekart

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What makes the problem even worse is that you can't report the actual spectators unless they died during a round. Definite +1 so we can deal with this problem.
 

Your Dad

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-1 for sure.

it's part of the gamemode and it's hilarious. it gives spectators something to do, and prop controlling is part of many maps that have spectator obstacle courses. i wouldnt take ttt too seriously. if you're being prop killed by spectators, you arent moving enough anyway imo.
 

Prozakk

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MASSIVE -1
it's funny and hasn't been a serious issue ever since you could kick a spectator from a prop with your magneto stick.
TTT is just a game and spectator propkill is rare enough to where it just adds some spice to the gameplay without ruining it
Great point, however... (Not really though, not really better since the evict feature for props, at all)
1650684658102.png
How exactly are you going to evict a player coming right at you?
The problem is still not solved, because there are likely plenty of other props for them to take over, unless you want to play a game of whack a mole with someone who is dead. In that case, what are the odds someone else would see this and think "oh, that looks fun!", and they start going after them. This would result in group targeting, which most of the time might be fun for both parties, but probably not always.

I'm not all knowing, I cant just sense a prop coming at me, and I'm sure that Randoms aren't going to be on the look out for props trying to crush them. So, when they get suddenly crushed, they are upset.
Thankfully due to the Spec killers getting credit now, these Randoms have a place to focus their anger on rather than on the server itself, and rage quitting.

-1 for sure.

it's part of the gamemode and it's hilarious. it gives spectators something to do, and prop controlling is part of many maps that have spectator obstacle courses. i wouldnt take ttt too seriously. if you're being prop killed by spectators, you arent moving enough anyway imo.
People who spec prop RDM aren't stupid, it's simple leading, they can hit anyone that is moving if they lead their descent. You shouldn't expect people to always move around. If anyone spec kills people and says, "You should move around more," they are just looking for an excuse, a dumb one. They aren't playing their game, 'Dodge The Flying Prop!' They just want to play the game as it's meant to be played, TTT, not whatever they want.

Again, as I said in the suggestion, just in case some people dont realize what this suggestion about:
All of this assumes that the person getting killed wasn't consenting, didn't want to be killed. I don't think this is going to bring back unreported damage.
 

Halen

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Great point, however... (Not really though, not really better since the evict feature for props, at all)
View attachment 1678
How exactly are you going to evict a player coming right at you?
The problem is still not solved, because there are likely plenty of other props for them to take over, unless you want to play a game of whack a mole with someone who is dead. In that case, what are the odds someone else would see this and think "oh, that looks fun!", and they start going after them. This would result in group targeting, which most of the time might be fun for both parties, but probably not always.

I'm not all knowing, I cant just sense a prop coming at me, and I'm sure that Randoms aren't going to be on the look out for props trying to crush them. So, when they get suddenly crushed, they are upset.
Thankfully due to the Spec killers getting credit now, these Randoms have a place to focus their anger on rather than on the server itself, and rage quitting.


People who spec prop RDM aren't stupid, it's simple leading, they can hit anyone that is moving if they lead their descent. You shouldn't expect people to always move around. If anyone spec kills people and says, "You should move around more," they are just looking for an excuse, a dumb one. They aren't playing their game, 'Dodge The Flying Prop!' They just want to play the game as it's meant to be played, TTT, not whatever they want.

Again, as I said in the suggestion, just in case some people dont realize what this suggestion about:
I'm sorry bro but if you can't get out of the way of a barrel falling on your head from 200 feet above you, I really don't know what to tell you. Git gud? Also, the mental gymnastics required to come to the "group targeting" conclusion could get you a gold medal in the olympics. I'm not buying your rebuttal at all. Spectator propkill is funny and rare. It's really not as much of a problem as it used to be a few months ago at all. Even if you think that kicking spectators out of props hasn't addressed the issue, the frequency of spectator propkill is low, has always been low, and i've seen it less often now than I ever have.
 

waffle

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I'm sorry bro but if you can't get out of the way of a barrel falling on your head from 200 feet above you, I really don't know what to tell you. Git gud? Also, the mental gymnastics required to come to the "group targeting" conclusion could get you a gold medal in the olympics. I'm not buying your rebuttal at all. Spectator propkill is funny and rare. It's really not as much of a problem as it used to be a few months ago at all. Even if you think that kicking spectators out of props hasn't addressed the issue, the frequency of spectator propkill is low, has always been low, and i've seen it less often now than I ever have.
Its really not rare at all. When I kill a bunch of t's as detectives or a buncha innos on my t round a buncha angry dead people start flying at me (this happens even on low pop) the reason it seems rare now is because most people don't complain about it anymore because its been normalized to rdm as a spectator prop.
 

RyanHighman

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I think the bigger problem is the damage, rather than the kills. Only the killer gets called out by the death banner. That isnt something thats really fixable, but it is still an issue with the way that props heavily influence the rounds, even if it isnt reported.
 

Max

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Alot of the responses I see here against this seem to be a matter of "get good" or similar veins of matters of skill.

This is Trouble in Terrorist Town, not deathmatch. The point of the game is to make each round an experience, it's why one of the biggest rules is No RDM. This restriction is so that as an innocent, you are supposed to work with others until otherwise proven T or actions deem someone to be a T. What you say, what you do, what actions you take are this giant game of cat and mouse that's supposed to raise the tension until everythings release, either with a bullet or crowbar in the back of the head of someone.

Dying to a barrel or vending machine because I was talking with someone in game, (or having a barrel thrown at me at mach 3) is ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS the first few times it happens. But when you got used to playing on a server where it was a once every couple of nights to it happening every round, it gets old and and frustrating because there is nothing you can do about it and it ruins the point. This game isn't supposed to be high speed all the time, you're supposed to have slow moments and talk things out, make solutions and take advantage. If the only way to play is having to move 100% of the time to dodge props flying at you, I personally don't want to play.

It's why I don't like getting on everynight anymore and only get on after updates and then leave after about an hour because I can't stop a vending machine im watching trying to kill me because someone thinks doing it for the 10th time in 6 rounds is funny. It gets old real quick and it's not fun to deal with.
 

Gabriel

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Left clicking with the magneto stick evicts people too
Tbf this doesnt do much to help the B2 Stealth Sawblade that is quietly dropping towards your head while you're focusing on something else
 

proper

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This is Trouble in Terrorist Town, not deathmatch. The point of the game is to make each round an experience
Personally I think the key to a fun server and an active player base is letting the players collectively form their preferred way of playing rather than trying to dictate something like this. it's why servers that try to control too much and have a rulebook that is too dense to allow for any flexibility don't make it. ttt and gmod as a whole are on their way out. I really don't think being harsher should be implemented in any aspect of the game at this point in its lifespan.
 

Halen

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Personally I think the key to a fun server and an active player base is letting the players collectively form their preferred way of playing rather than trying to dictate something like this. it's why servers that try to control too much and have a rulebook that is too dense to allow for any flexibility don't make it. ttt and gmod as a whole are on their way out. I really don't think being harsher should be implemented in any aspect of the game at this point in its lifespan.
Super omega +1. I don't want to be an asshole but some of the people in this thread are in severe need of grass touching. It's a fucking game, and a goofy fun one at that. If this was Counter Strike, i'd understand your arguments but it's 2022 and it's Garry's Mod. Let people play to have fun, not to win this goofass gamemode.
 

Max

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Personally I think the key to a fun server and an active player base is letting the players collectively form their preferred way of playing rather than trying to dictate something like this. it's why servers that try to control too much and have a rulebook that is too dense to allow for any flexibility don't make it. ttt and gmod as a whole are on their way out. I really don't think being harsher should be implemented in any aspect of the game at this point in its lifespan.

It's why I don't play on the server anymore except for the day after updates and I just stay quiet in hopes things change back to how things started. Like I said in my original post, I don't mind the occasional laugh when a random possessed vending machine kills me, especially when its well timed, but when it's EVERY FUCKING ROUND and letting it slide completely means the rules have changed. This gamemode requires rules to run properly and when they aren't enforced or incidents are applied depending on who did it, it means people don't know what is or isn't allowed.

I followed the rules once before: I watched people prop-killing with barrels and I'd kill them immediately once I heard or saw the damage and people bitched at me for 'RDM'. I stopped doing it because the staff weren't bothering to dampen the behavior especially considering the repeat offenders are buddy-buddy with the staff which is totally fine (green for emphasis), but know that it doesn't go unnoticed and that bias towards these 'friends' and those outside the clique are gonna leave quicker and quietly.

If you guys wanna have a server full of people throwing props and spec prop killing, have at it. I don't want to be a part of that and kills my vibe in the rare occasions I get the itch to play.
 
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