Rejected Treat Spectator RDM More Harshly

[Prozakk]

It's toxic, so it deserves to be treated as such.

When someone is spec prop killing it is worse than ghosting, they aren't just giving game changing info to an alive player, they are actively killing/damaging alive players. Not only that, but they could be using information they have from when they were alive, or from being dead. Dead innocent targeting traitors, perhaps even revenge targeting. Dead traitor targeting innocents, or worse, killing someone they know for a fact is t.

They are taking someone's fun of playing the game from them because they are bored. Ending someone else's round because they want to.

All of this assumes that the person getting killed wasn't consenting, didn't want to be killed. I don't think this is going to bring back unreported damage.

Spoiler: What I think would make sense for the slaying protocol:

Spec RDM: 1 slay
RDM(1) (+ Spec RDM?(2))

Inno on T spec RDM: 2 slays
RDM(1) + Potential Intentional RDM of a T(2) (+ Spec RDM?(3))
2 slays because they could have info telling them that the person was T, and may have targeted them.
I think that it would make sense to include someone killing the last inno under this, due to potential targeting.

T on T spec RDM: 3 slays
RDM(1) + Intentional T on T RDM as Spec(3) (+ Spec RDM?(4))
3 slays for the added toxicity that they knew they were T, could be argued to apply to staff spec RDMing Ts.

Revenge Spec RDM: 3 slays
RDM(1) + Revenge RDM as Spec(3) (+ Spec RDM?(4))
Assuming my thread about slain players and possessing props is accepted, this would likely only apply if there is evidence that they killed them as revenge.
I believe this should also apply when an inno/T kills the inno/T that killed them when they were alive, maybe a slightly less severe version though.

Spec RDM while Slain: +1 Slay
If my thread about slain players and possessing props isn't accepted.

Added note: I think all of what I have listed should have +1 slay, for the added toxicity of spec prop killing, intervening on a round you are no longer a part of. I excluded this because it may be looked at as excessive, but I think it's just.
Yes, that would mean 5 slays for someone that revenge RDMed while slain, but that absolutely makes sense to me.

I also believe that bans should be extended for Mass Spec RDM. (Rare, but if someone actually does it, they deserve a longer ban.)

 

[Frost]

I'm kinda surprised this wasn't a rule already, I do agree with what prozakk offered for the rules. Communities i've been in before just had that under the RDM rule, killing people as a spec w/ a prop (and back when specDM had a bug you could kill people in T rooms by walking in) as well, just slap a slay and move on. I mean when a spec prop kills you, it does tell you who. However it should stand on a report per report basis, because some people may not care at all if they get spec pk'd.

I'd also add in a rule and fit this into ghosting as well, because one issue I tackled before with another community was, people would ghost as props by constantly following the T around, and it kinda sparked RDM, maybe fit in a warning for doing that, then so on and so forth.

+1 tho, should be an option to report and have these treated as RDM as per how the player feeels

 

[green county health dept]

it makes the game really fun for some and terrible for others. Could only just allow possession every other round/map and have loosey goosey restrictions when it is in place to keep it fun

 

[Halen]

It's why I don't play on the server anymore except for the day after updates and I just stay quiet in hopes things change back to how things started. Like I said in my original post, I don't mind the occasional laugh when a random possessed vending machine kills me, especially when its well timed, but when it's EVERY FUCKING ROUND and letting it slide completely means the rules have changed. This gamemode requires rules to run properly and when they aren't enforced or incidents are applied depending on who did it, it means people don't know what is or isn't allowed.

I followed the rules once before: I watched people prop-killing with barrels and I'd kill them immediately once I heard or saw the damage and people bitched at me for 'RDM'. I stopped doing it because the staff weren't bothering to dampen the behavior especially considering the repeat offenders are buddy-buddy with the staff which is totally fine (green for emphasis), but know that it doesn't go unnoticed and that bias towards these 'friends' and those outside the clique are gonna leave quicker and quietly.

If you guys wanna have a server full of people throwing props and spec prop killing, have at it. I don't want to be a part of that and kills my vibe in the rare occasions I get the itch to play.

If you report someone for propkill and there is staff online they are going to slay them. What else could you want? Active community members to be perma banned because you get salty over propkilling? It's not that serious bro you're blowing this issue way out of proportion acting like it's gonna kill the community when the server is fully active during peak hours

 

[Pokeben10]

You just need to know who to mess with and when to do it. If you're pals and they're fine with it, cool, just as long as it doesn't disrupt the rest of the game. But if it's RDM, it's RDM. It gets annoying sometimes.

 

[Max]

If you report someone for propkill and there is staff online they are going to slay them. What else could you want? Active community members to be perma banned because you get salty over propkilling? It's not that serious bro you're blowing this issue way out of proportion acting like it's gonna kill the community when the server is fully active during peak hours

There's a reason I don't play on the server except for rare occasions and even those sessions are super short because of rampant prop killing, mag-stick or spectator possession. I don't want people perma banned, far from it. I want rules to be respected.

Again. Have your fun, throw your props, slam from 100 feet your vending machines and saw blades. This is all in good fun which is the point of any video game. But TTT is more than these tricks, but it feels like once its allowed, its all anyone wants to do.

 

[My Dime Is Up]

A bit of a different stance regarding this. The creator of TTT, Bad King Urgrain, said that he actually had prop possession a thing to be a ghost for alive people, aka a silly way for dead people to speak to alive people. I can't find where he said this but I remember reading it years ago. Here though he does give his comments on RDM, though he notes that he never has actually ran a TTT server himself.

 

[Titan]

I find it interesting how suddenly the status quo has shifted in these past few months to support spec prop killing (and really interference in general) after a lifetime of it being quite taboo beforehand.

I really don't enjoy it myself. I find it quite frustrating to have rounds ruined by bored spectators. I understand you're bored, but don't drag me down with you.

That said.. I'm not sure a protocol is the best way to go about it. Here's how I see things: firstly, you got two friends, and one of those friends happens to be dead and obliterates the live one with a vending machine - not toxic. Nobody else is brought into it, it's just two friends fucking around and having fun. I'd in fact argue that that's ideal - the goal is harmless fun, isn't it? The second situation is you got someone who spec RDMs a rando. Or they RDM a person that they know doesn't want to be RDM'd. Or a person who refuses to stop spec RDMing when asked. That, I see as toxic. And consequently, additional toxicity slays might be in order; a discretionary system we are already equipped with and use.

I think this server has found a good balance for having fun (particularly at the expense of the rules), just as long as it's harmless fun. I hunt pierogi every round if i've got a barrel, but i don't prop kill other people (whom i don't know, or know they don't want it) just because it's fun for me, because then I'm having fun at someone else's expense, and i think if you're going out of your way to have fun despite detracting from other's fun, then you're being rather toxic.

as a side note, you don't have to kill a rando for your spec prop killing to have an effect on them. if it's, for example, endgame and you kill one of the pivotal players, i'd also consider that toxic, because in a 1v1, even if your friend is apathetic towards it, you mightve have ruined what would have otherwise been a source of excitement for the other player. thus, i think it's best to abstain from prop killing in a scenario like that. And that's not the only situation where that's the case either, hence why I would advocate for it falling under toxicity when applicable - so that the fluidity and nuance of the concept can be accounted for without broad strokes of banishment like a protocol would.

AHG has found its place as the antithesis of serious, but we shouldn't let our fun start to interfere significantly with players, and especially new players who do just want to enjoy some TTT. New players join constantly, I'd hate for our antics to be turning them away.

tl;dr know your audience. do what pokeben said. know your limits, play within them

oh also edit real quick, spec prop killing is most definitely, certifiably, not a part of the gamemode.

 

[Nitro_Hunter]

>wake up and play on ttt server
> get flattened by bed frame sent by god
> start crying and sucking thumb
> call for mommy while holding blanky
> make thread about it on forums
> change diaper and go to bed with pacifier

 

[Vent Xekart]

>wake up and play on ttt server
> get flattened by bed frame sent by god
> start crying and sucking thumb
> call for mommy while holding blanky
> make thread about it on forums
> change diaper and go to bed with pacifier

Was that really necessary?

 

[j3kawesome]

Was that really necessary?

yes

 

[Nitro_Hunter]

Was that really necessary?

Yes because now I know you also wear diapers and suck on your thumb while crying for mommy when video game man send barrel to kill

 

[Prozakk]

Glad you have had your say, @Nitro_Hunter. Only have insults, no actual argument, sad.

You just need to know who to mess with and when to do it. If you're pals and they're fine with it, cool, just as long as it doesn't disrupt the rest of the game. But if it's RDM, it's RDM. It gets annoying sometimes.

This is the point of this suggestion, to discourage spec killing on random people, not to stop it entirely. If friends want to do it, why stop them? If both of them enjoy it, let them have their fun. They won't report each other if they aren't ok with it.
The real point is to stop potential targeting/revenge RDM. To discourage people from going after people who don't find it fun. They kill someone who doesn't like it, serve a harsher punishment when reported, and they (hopefully) don't do it again.

A bit of a different stance regarding this. The creator of TTT, Bad King Urgrain, said that he actually had prop possession a thing to be a ghost for alive people, aka a silly way for dead people to speak to alive people. I can't find where he said this but I remember reading it years ago. Here though he does give his comments on RDM, though he notes that he never has actually ran a TTT server himself.

Another solution to the issue would be to completely remove spec possession. However, in my opinion, and I'm sure most other people's opinion, prop possession is a fun, maybe even it's an important part of the game.
It's a fun feature, but when it is used maliciously, it makes the game more fun for a few at the cost of the many.
When it is abused in a malicious way, such as to kill, or hurt people who are alive, and trying to play the game, people have less fun. This is a way to keep this between friends, who won't report each other for it.

 

[Nitro_Hunter]

Glad the children have had their say. Only have insults, no actual argument, sad. @Nitro_Hunter


This is the point of this suggestion, to discourage spec killing on random people, not to stop it entirely. If friends want to do it, why stop them? If both of them enjoy it, let them have their fun. They won't report each other if they aren't ok with it.
The real point is to stop potential targeting/revenge RDM. To discourage people from going after people who don't find it fun. They kill someone who doesn't like it, serve a harsher punishment when reported, and they (hopefully) don't do it again.


Another solution to the issue would be to completely remove spec possession. However, in my opinion, and I'm sure most other people's opinion, prop possession is a fun, maybe even it's an important part of the game.
It's a fun feature, but when it is used maliciously, it makes the game more fun for a few at the cost of the many.
When it is abused in a malicious way, such as to kill, or hurt people who are alive, and trying to play the game, people have less fun. This is a way to keep this between friends, who won't report each other for it.

Why you talking about kids man….. kinda creepy

 

[Nitro_Hunter]

Without prop killing ghosts then what would vel put in his monthly clip vids…… he’s like the joker in a way

 

[Sam The Fluffy One]

Ah yes my favorite part about prop heavy maps is being constantly damaged by spectators flying around as props
+1

 

[The Memelord]

A bit of a different stance regarding this. The creator of TTT, Bad King Urgrain, said that he actually had prop possession a thing to be a ghost for alive people, aka a silly way for dead people to speak to alive people. I can't find where he said this but I remember reading it years ago. Here though he does give his comments on RDM, though he notes that he never has actually ran a TTT server himself.

Is there a way you can make it so possessed props cannot damage players? I think that would be the best compromise. Allow the dead players to still have their fun trying to communicate with alive players, but remove the potential hassle of dealing with possessed prop on player RDM.

 

[gerafe]

As a big culprit, i have herefore decided that iw ill now only kill vent xekart with props while spectator

- gerafe

 

[Nitro_Hunter]

As a big culprit, i have herefore decided that iw ill now only kill vent xekart with props while spectator

- gerafe

Godspeed soldier, be prepared to face big baby tantrums and the dumb rating

 

[Vent Xekart]

Why you talking about kids man….. kinda creepy

Because you act like one.

As a big culprit, i have herefore decided that iw ill now only kill vent xekart with props while spectator

- gerafe

And I'll be sure to report you each and every time you do.

Godspeed soldier, be prepared to face big baby tantrums and the dumb rating

Considering how much bullshit you've dropped in this thread, I'm probably not the only big baby here. Look in the mirror at some point, shithead.

 

[Nitro_Hunter]

I’ve

Because you act like one.

And I'll be sure to report you each and every time you do.

Considering how much bullshit you've dropped in this thread, I'm probably not the only big baby here. Look in the mirror at some point, shithead.

Ive made baby upset, did someone brap there pants cuz I can see the big smelly stink lines coming from you. Someone needs to burp him he seems gassy