Rejected Treat Spectator RDM More Harshly

[Prozakk]

It's toxic, so it deserves to be treated as such.

When someone is spec prop killing it is worse than ghosting, they aren't just giving game changing info to an alive player, they are actively killing/damaging alive players. Not only that, but they could be using information they have from when they were alive, or from being dead. Dead innocent targeting traitors, perhaps even revenge targeting. Dead traitor targeting innocents, or worse, killing someone they know for a fact is t.

They are taking someone's fun of playing the game from them because they are bored. Ending someone else's round because they want to.

All of this assumes that the person getting killed wasn't consenting, didn't want to be killed. I don't think this is going to bring back unreported damage.

Spoiler: What I think would make sense for the slaying protocol:

Spec RDM: 1 slay
RDM(1) (+ Spec RDM?(2))

Inno on T spec RDM: 2 slays
RDM(1) + Potential Intentional RDM of a T(2) (+ Spec RDM?(3))
2 slays because they could have info telling them that the person was T, and may have targeted them.
I think that it would make sense to include someone killing the last inno under this, due to potential targeting.

T on T spec RDM: 3 slays
RDM(1) + Intentional T on T RDM as Spec(3) (+ Spec RDM?(4))
3 slays for the added toxicity that they knew they were T, could be argued to apply to staff spec RDMing Ts.

Revenge Spec RDM: 3 slays
RDM(1) + Revenge RDM as Spec(3) (+ Spec RDM?(4))
Assuming my thread about slain players and possessing props is accepted, this would likely only apply if there is evidence that they killed them as revenge.
I believe this should also apply when an inno/T kills the inno/T that killed them when they were alive, maybe a slightly less severe version though.

Spec RDM while Slain: +1 Slay
If my thread about slain players and possessing props isn't accepted.

Added note: I think all of what I have listed should have +1 slay, for the added toxicity of spec prop killing, intervening on a round you are no longer a part of. I excluded this because it may be looked at as excessive, but I think it's just.
Yes, that would mean 5 slays for someone that revenge RDMed while slain, but that absolutely makes sense to me.

I also believe that bans should be extended for Mass Spec RDM. (Rare, but if someone actually does it, they deserve a longer ban.)

 

[Nitro_Hunter]

Godspeed soldier, be prepared to face big baby tantrums and the dumb rating

I was right….. gonna frocking kill myself

 

[Pierogi]

You all suck, therefore this thread is locked until I can sufficiently respond.

 

[Pierogi]

Let me begin with what we've already done:

• Admins already have discretion to issue extra slays and bans for spectator prop RDM. This has been the case since AHG started - I'm sure @pablo.gonzales.2006 will be really confused if he ever reads this thread.
• Last month, we added kill logging for spectator prop kills. We also added the ability for living players to evict spectators from props with their magneto sticks.
• A few days ago, karma tracking for spectator kills was added. Today, an additional karma penalty was added (spectator kills now receive 1.5x greater karma penalties).
• Staff have been instructed to specify if a slay has been issued for spectator RDM, so that repeat offenders can be tracked more easily.

We are not going to:

• Implement a complicated slay scheme that can result in up to 5 slays for a single RDM.
• Go around searching and punishing for RDM that victims can't be bothered to report.

To address the original post, spectator RDM isn't somehow worse than ghosting. At worst, spectator RDM is revenge RDM. It's nowhere near as bad as ghosting, because ghosting involves circumventing the natural mechanics of the game to gain a competitive advantage over others. That's a step below hacking, and many servers issue permanent bans for the first offense of ghosting.

In fact, I wouldn't even consider a single spectator RDM to be toxic. As you yourself said, it's usually just people being bored. A lot of things that made spectator RDM toxic stemmed from a lack of accountability for the action - no logs, no karma loss, etc. Now that these issues are resolved, I don't think it's fair to automatically paint single spectator prop kills as toxic. If someone's persistently prop killing random players or self-avenging with an orange cart, then that becomes toxic.

Also, it's difficult to add a new rule or increase the punishment for breaking a rule - especially if it's a polarizing change. From coomer avatars to spectator RDM, all it takes is one ban to kick off a massive shitstorm. AHG's style has been to disincentivize negative behaviors before punishing them, and I think it's served us well over the past year. I expect the addition of karma loss to spectator prop damage, as well as damage logging, to reduce spectator prop kills to the extent. If someone's still repeatedly using an orange cart as a predator missile, we'll see it in their history logs and deal with it accordingly.

P.S. People... have some self-respect and report RDMs that bother you. People on the internet love to romanticize conflict aversion, but all it does is cause frustrations to boil until conflict becomes inevitable.