Rejected Allow soft a n word

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Evil Pauly

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Multiple times I’ve played on the server I’ve had to tell a black player that he was not aloud to say the n word (being serious btw) by not allowing them to be themselves on the server they end up leaving and finding somewhere else to play. We are missing out on so many new community members because of this.
Like you can’t ask a person from a marginalized community to change their vocabulary completely and expect them to stay. I believe this is one big reason why we have very few black community members.
Thank you.
 

Grumble

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I agree, as a person of colour myself I think limiting other marginalized groups of people of self expression to be highly prejudicial and constitutionally offensive.
 

Evil Pauly

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AAVE is just as effective as communicating with “proper white English” but a lot of white people look down on it and because of long systemic problems and racism in the working class, “you can’t speak like that you have to speak more white don’t say the n word if you want a job” I think it’s messed up to do this to any group of people and pretty much make them change their vocabulary if they want to play on this server.
 

RyanHighman

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I agree with the original post. I only fear that we will go back to the same problem we had in SGM where it was being used left right and center by everyone, including people that were known to be whiter than ghost. Another issue that was brought up when that word is allowed, is that the word is universally very offensive in places like the UK.

You can argue that it being part of everyday language should be an exception, but we also dont allow the shortened f slur, even though that means cigarette in the UK (although that one is much more loophole-able)

Im gonna give this a tentative +1, because I do hate warning people who use the word when its obviously just part of their vocabulary, and it isnt said with any malice or harm. I would like to say that if it were to be accepted, and everyone and their mothers started using it, it would likely be reversed back to the current rule
 

Evil Pauly

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Im gonna give this a tentative +1, because I do hate warning people who use the word when its obviously just part of their vocabulary, and it isnt said with any malice or harm. I would like to say that if it were to be accepted, and everyone and their mothers started using it, it would likely be reversed back to the current rule
I think it would be pretty easy to get people on harassment owns racism if someone started using it in an evil way.
 

LegendaryRyan

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I know a lot of people are going to think of this as a troll post, even though it isn't, and are going to think my post here is a troll post (it isn't. I am serious here.)

To accurately address this issue, we first must address why the word n***er is banned, and should stay banned.
The word n***er is used to take an entire group of human beings, focus on a singular part of them, and reduce them to that part. To take a complex individual and reduce them to the color of their skin and imply that all parts of them are the same as the other people who share the single trait of having black skin is wrong. The word n***er historically has done this, and is still used to do this. I rarely even hear black people themselves using the word "n***er" on themself. So, this word should certainly stay banned, as should other words that perform this same task. Racism is horribly immoral, and should not be given a voice within the After Hours Gaming community.

So, why then, should the word n***a be treated differently? N***a is basically a shortened version of the word n***er, and was used as such by the enslavors when addresses the enslaved. It was used by the oppressors to address the oppressed. However, unlike the word n***er, an interesting sociological phenomenon occurred, that is not unique to this situation. The oppressed black people began owning the word, and making it their own. This is not the first time in history this has happened, and certainly will not be the last. When the United States of America was still just thirteen colonies, the British would frequently call the Americans things like "Yanks" or "Yankees", and other slurs, so-to-speak. The British certainly did not mean anything good when calling an American a yankee. However, the Americans would hear this word reapetedly, and stole it from the British. They turned this term into their own word, so much so that we now have a baseball team named the Yankees, and we have songs sung in elementary school about some yankee doodle dandy. A similar situation can be observed with the term "queer." While the term queer can be, was, and still sometimes is used to insult a gay individual, the term has been adopted by the LGBT community, so much so that the term LGBT has now become LGBTQIA+, the Q meaning queer. A similar event has happened with the term "f*g", and "f**got", where the oppressed have adopted the word and now use it on themselves. So why then, should the word n***a be treated any differently? The people who were being harmed by this term, similar to yankee, and is not typically used to reduce a complex individual down to a single aspect of their person.

So if black people have claimed the word and have taken it from their oppressors, should non-black people be allowed to use the word? Yes, they should, for a few different reasons. In an online community, it would be impossible to identify who is black, and who is white. One could take the https://reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter approach and demand irrefutable photographic proof of blackness, but this is an absurd and inherently racist concept, as well as a major privacy violation, and After Hours Gaming should strive to be better than a Reddit community. So, should the word n***a be allowed for someone in the community, it must be allowed for everyone. There is the issue of the fact that many white people simply use the word. If a white child grows up with black parents, and adopts the language of their family, should they be barred entry from using the term? Should a white person, who regularly uses the word when in the presence of real black people in the real world without consequence, be barred use from this online internet community where race cannot even be easily identified?

There is also an issue with the way this community addresses context and the word n***a. In many songs, the word n***a is used. A very popular song by Jay-Z has the word in the title, "N***as in Paris". In this song, Jay-Z and his friends travel to Paris. They are enjoying many high class things in Paris, they are enjoying high fashion, fancy hotels and restaurants, and other things most people will never experience. Jay-Z and Kanye West reflect on the event, and feel like they were not ever supposed to reach these heights and ever travel to Paris. Upon reflection, the duo think about where their people started in America - as slaves, as nothing but a n***a, just a reduction of their complicated character down to the fact they are black. Eventually, the slaves were freed, black people's human rights were recognized in America, and were given the same opportunities as white people. One such opportunity was the ability to become rich, famous, and travel to Paris. So, the duo have the revelation that they are a couple of "N***as in Paris." This song is more than just a generic rap song in which someone is speaking provocatively, using slurs just to use slurs, or using curse words just to use curse words. The song is actually a powerful reflection on where black people started in America, to where they are now. It is a song made with love, and not from hate. It is not difficult to examine the context of a situation, and determine if someone is using a word hatefully, or using it with love.

Should the word n***a be disallowed when used hatefully, then? When using a word like "retard", or calling a woman a "cunt," there is an appropriate time to do so, and an inappropriate time. Perhaps as a term of endearment, the terms are fine to be used. However, when a woman speaks for the first time on a microphone in the game, immediately calling her a "cunt" or a "bitch", and telling her to go back to the kitchen, immediately tells you the words are not being used lovingly, but are being used hatefully. When any words, whether they are/were racial slurs or not, are used hatefully it is considered harassment, and is punished as such in this server. The fact the woman was called a bitch or a cunt is not why the user would be punished. It is because the user harassed the woman. The same situation would apply with use of words like "n***a." If my friend joins the server, and I exclaim "What's good n***a," it is trivial to assume I am coming from a place of love, and am not harassing the user. But if I were to say to my arch nemesis, "You stupid fucking n***a," I may be harassing the user, and should be punished. Whether I called this user a n***a or called him a cunt, bitch, or any other curse word actually doesn't matter, as I was still harassing him. There is a clear difference between using a term to love someone, and harassment, and it is trivial to tell the difference.

Excuse this giant wall of text, it is difficult to take a complicated issue involving linguistics and shortening it to a forum post. In short, the term n***a should be unbanned, and the moderation team should be given the simple directive that "harassment is, always was, and always will be harassment. Continue to punish those who harass other users, regardless of the language used, as you have always done, and always will do."
 

JynxtheMynx

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As the resident black, this is a stupid thread :D

Why would I want a word that was in the past used to degrade black people that has now since been reclaimed by said black people to be used within our own community, to be co-opted to use by the same class of people who initially made the word in the first place? You can compare the same thing as for the alphabet mafia as you did before, but my statement still stands. Why would queers want to be called that by people who have historically outcasted and harmed them for being different than others?

The fact that you decided to use the word "yank" or "yankee" as comparison to literal slurs is astounding. You know why you can say "yankee" or "cracker" to someone out loud in a public area? It's because its not considered a bad thing, the mere fact that people have to censor n***a or f*g is because of the fact that it is so harmful. That tells you it probably shouldn't be said in any capacity unless you happen to be one of the people that is black or gay (and even then some people that identify with that don't say it, such as I do).

I do however agree that the song issue is dumb but only in the context that if I were to post a video that happened to have the n world in it, I would get warned even though I did not say it. I don't agree in the context if someone were singing or repeating lyrics with n world in it if it were in sb, vc, or in game.

Ok bye
Luv ya <3
 

LegendaryRyan

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the mere fact that people have to censor n***a or f*g
The only reason I am censoring my speech in this thread is because saying those words uncensored would result in my ban.

You know why you can say "yankee" or "cracker" to someone out loud in a public area? It's because its not considered a bad thing,
I remember moving from Chicago to Texas, I was often called a yankee as I was from the North, and made fun of relentlessly. At that time, I certainly considered the term a bad thing. Also, have you never been in public and heard someone speaking with their friends and saying n***a? I certainly hear this every time I go to the mall and eat at the food court. I hear it when I’m buying groceries, and I hear it more often when I’m in a black community. When I go to the gay bar, a public area, I do hear the gay people calling each other f*gs. I hear gay people say that in other places too.

If this isn’t something you are hearing, is it because you aren’t listening to what is happening around you, or because you don’t go out very often?

As the resident black, this is a stupid thread :D
You are not a token black. There are other black community members. It sickens me that you think so little of yourself that you would resort to calling yourself this.
 

Everlong

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Similary to RYAN, I'm going to give a tentative +1. As I mentioned earlier in shoutbox, I am a bit uneasy about this and would never use it regardless, but I do know that a lot of the black people at my school use it affectionately to their friends and simply, the meaning of the word changes. Every language and the meaning of words evolves over time, like how gay went from meaning happy to meaning having different sexual preferences. Yes, the old definition is still used occasionally for both words, but the new one has a bit more prominence. Racism is still definitely a problem that should be looked out for and the word in general should be used infrequently or else it would just get ridiculous. Afterall, we don't want a lot of slurs in VeL's recap videos or in general as it might push people away from the server. Basically, this will only work if its kept at a healthy balance. For now, I will give a +1, but I would be willing to reconsider to a -1 if there is a decent enough argument given.
 
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Grumble

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As the resident black, this is a stupid thread :D

Why would I want a word that was in the past used to degrade black people that has now since been reclaimed by said black people to be used within our own community, to be co-opted to use by the same class of people who initially made the word in the first place? You can compare the same thing as for the alphabet mafia as you did before, but my statement still stands. Why would queers want to be called that by people who have historically outcasted and harmed them for being different than others?

The fact that you decided to use the word "yank" or "yankee" as comparison to literal slurs is astounding. You know why you can say "yankee" or "cracker" to someone out loud in a public area? It's because its not considered a bad thing, the mere fact that people have to censor n***a or f*g is because of the fact that it is so harmful. That tells you it probably shouldn't be said in any capacity unless you happen to be one of the people that is black or gay (and even then some people that identify with that don't say it, such as I do).

I do however agree that the song issue is dumb but only in the context that if I were to post a video that happened to have the n world in it, I would get warned even though I did not say it. I don't agree in the context if someone were singing or repeating lyrics with n world in it if it were in sb, vc, or in game.

Ok bye
Luv ya <3
although i disagree you're my favorite black
 

RyanHighman

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JynxtheMynx

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The only reason I am censoring my speech in this thread is because saying those words uncensored would result in my ban.


I remember moving from Chicago to Texas, I was often called a yankee as I was from the North, and made fun of relentlessly. At that time, I certainly considered the term a bad thing. Also, have you never been in public and heard someone speaking with their friends and saying n***a? I certainly hear this every time I go to the mall and eat at the food court. I hear it when I’m buying groceries, and I hear it more often when I’m in a black community. When I go to the gay bar, a public area, I do hear the gay people calling each other f*gs. I hear gay people say that in other places too.

If this isn’t something you are hearing, is it because you aren’t listening to what is happening around you, or because you don’t go out very often?


You are not a token black. There are other black community members. It sickens me that you think so little of yourself that you would resort to calling yourself this
1) I did not say that the reason the words are censored here is because of the fact that you would get banned, i was talking about in regular society.
2) Oh boohoo you got called a yankee, cry me a river. You proved my point babes, you are hearing it in mainly BLACK communites and GAY communites.
3) I go out often when I want or need to, and believe me I do hear it as I live in the south. But I think it is kind of demeaning to ask me if I have ever heard the n word be said to me in that tone.
4) I am the token black, everyone wants to suck my blackberry :3
 

dogewant2be

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1) I did not say that the reason the words are censored here is because of the fact that you would get banned, i was talking about in regular society.
2) Oh boohoo you got called a yankee, cry me a river. You proved my point babes, you are hearing it in mainly BLACK communites and GAY communites.
3) I go out often when I want or need to, and believe me I do hear it as I live in the south. But I think it is kind of demeaning to ask me if I have ever heard the n word be said to me in that tone.
4) I am the token black, everyone wants to suck my blackberry :3
baby book
 

RyanHighman

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View attachment 2448
mfers really out here writing 5 page double spaced 12 point times new roman font essays on why they should be able to use the n word as a white person
Check for errors. CHECK FOR ERRORS

Edit: Ryan, the word doesnt affect you, it affects Jynx. Her opinion holds much more weight than yours does in this conversation.
 

Pierogi

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I know a lot of people are going to think of this as a troll post, even though it isn't, and are going to think my post here is a troll post (it isn't. I am serious here.)

To accurately address this issue, we first must address why the word n***er is banned, and should stay banned.
The word n***er is used to take an entire group of human beings, focus on a singular part of them, and reduce them to that part. To take a complex individual and reduce them to the color of their skin and imply that all parts of them are the same as the other people who share the single trait of having black skin is wrong. The word n***er historically has done this, and is still used to do this. I rarely even hear black people themselves using the word "n***er" on themself. So, this word should certainly stay banned, as should other words that perform this same task. Racism is horribly immoral, and should not be given a voice within the After Hours Gaming community.

So, why then, should the word n***a be treated differently? N***a is basically a shortened version of the word n***er, and was used as such by the enslavors when addresses the enslaved. It was used by the oppressors to address the oppressed. However, unlike the word n***er, an interesting sociological phenomenon occurred, that is not unique to this situation. The oppressed black people began owning the word, and making it their own. This is not the first time in history this has happened, and certainly will not be the last. When the United States of America was still just thirteen colonies, the British would frequently call the Americans things like "Yanks" or "Yankees", and other slurs, so-to-speak. The British certainly did not mean anything good when calling an American a yankee. However, the Americans would hear this word reapetedly, and stole it from the British. They turned this term into their own word, so much so that we now have a baseball team named the Yankees, and we have songs sung in elementary school about some yankee doodle dandy. A similar situation can be observed with the term "queer." While the term queer can be, was, and still sometimes is used to insult a gay individual, the term has been adopted by the LGBT community, so much so that the term LGBT has now become LGBTQIA+, the Q meaning queer. A similar event has happened with the term "f*g", and "f**got", where the oppressed have adopted the word and now use it on themselves. So why then, should the word n***a be treated any differently? The people who were being harmed by this term, similar to yankee, and is not typically used to reduce a complex individual down to a single aspect of their person.

So if black people have claimed the word and have taken it from their oppressors, should non-black people be allowed to use the word? Yes, they should, for a few different reasons. In an online community, it would be impossible to identify who is black, and who is white. One could take the https://reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter approach and demand irrefutable photographic proof of blackness, but this is an absurd and inherently racist concept, as well as a major privacy violation, and After Hours Gaming should strive to be better than a Reddit community. So, should the word n***a be allowed for someone in the community, it must be allowed for everyone. There is the issue of the fact that many white people simply use the word. If a white child grows up with black parents, and adopts the language of their family, should they be barred entry from using the term? Should a white person, who regularly uses the word when in the presence of real black people in the real world without consequence, be barred use from this online internet community where race cannot even be easily identified?

There is also an issue with the way this community addresses context and the word n***a. In many songs, the word n***a is used. A very popular song by Jay-Z has the word in the title, "N***as in Paris". In this song, Jay-Z and his friends travel to Paris. They are enjoying many high class things in Paris, they are enjoying high fashion, fancy hotels and restaurants, and other things most people will never experience. Jay-Z and Kanye West reflect on the event, and feel like they were not ever supposed to reach these heights and ever travel to Paris. Upon reflection, the duo think about where their people started in America - as slaves, as nothing but a n***a, just a reduction of their complicated character down to the fact they are black. Eventually, the slaves were freed, black people's human rights were recognized in America, and were given the same opportunities as white people. One such opportunity was the ability to become rich, famous, and travel to Paris. So, the duo have the revelation that they are a couple of "N***as in Paris." This song is more than just a generic rap song in which someone is speaking provocatively, using slurs just to use slurs, or using curse words just to use curse words. The song is actually a powerful reflection on where black people started in America, to where they are now. It is a song made with love, and not from hate. It is not difficult to examine the context of a situation, and determine if someone is using a word hatefully, or using it with love.

Should the word n***a be disallowed when used hatefully, then? When using a word like "retard", or calling a woman a "cunt," there is an appropriate time to do so, and an inappropriate time. Perhaps as a term of endearment, the terms are fine to be used. However, when a woman speaks for the first time on a microphone in the game, immediately calling her a "cunt" or a "bitch", and telling her to go back to the kitchen, immediately tells you the words are not being used lovingly, but are being used hatefully. When any words, whether they are/were racial slurs or not, are used hatefully it is considered harassment, and is punished as such in this server. The fact the woman was called a bitch or a cunt is not why the user would be punished. It is because the user harassed the woman. The same situation would apply with use of words like "n***a." If my friend joins the server, and I exclaim "What's good n***a," it is trivial to assume I am coming from a place of love, and am not harassing the user. But if I were to say to my arch nemesis, "You stupid fucking n***a," I may be harassing the user, and should be punished. Whether I called this user a n***a or called him a cunt, bitch, or any other curse word actually doesn't matter, as I was still harassing him. There is a clear difference between using a term to love someone, and harassment, and it is trivial to tell the difference.

Excuse this giant wall of text, it is difficult to take a complicated issue involving linguistics and shortening it to a forum post. In short, the term n***a should be unbanned, and the moderation team should be given the simple directive that "harassment is, always was, and always will be harassment. Continue to punish those who harass other users, regardless of the language used, as you have always done, and always will do."

1673046116879.png
hey man you've got some fucking explaining to do
 
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